Darren Schwartz and Scott Holstein
Subject: Rocky at 50
Transcript:
Larry Bernstein:
Welcome to What Happens Next. My name is Larry Bernstein. What Happens Next is a podcast that covers economics, politics, and culture. This episode is Rocky at 50.
The original Rocky film was released 50 years ago, and today we are going to review the entire Rocky series. Our discussion will be led by the What Happens Next Culture Critic Darren Schwartz with us is a special guest Scott Holstein who is one of my oldest friends.
My objective of this podcast is to discuss why Rocky won best picture and why you need to rewatch it. This series is a Stallone production: He wrote it, directed several of the films, and acted in it. He is the real hero that made this franchise successful, and my plan is to talk about how he did it.
Let’s get started.
Scott, tell our audience about how we met.
Scott Holstein:
First day of kindergarten. I am five-year-old, and I find two kids rolling on the ground fighting, wrestling. One is Larry and the other is Jeff Bloom.
Larry Bernstein:
I am not violent, so Jeff must have started this.
Scott Holstein:
Absolutely, Larry looks up from underneath Jeff and says, “Hey, new kid. Help me.”
Larry Bernstein:
Did you help me?
Scott Holstein:
Not a chance. I wasn’t going to take on Jeff Bloom.
Larry Bernstein:
Come on, if there’s two of us, we got a shot.
Scott Holstein:
He was a future football star. It was a great meeting. And we are still friends.
Larry Bernstein:
Darren, start us off.
Darren Schwartz:
Well, the project was the 50th anniversary of Rocky and we watched Rocky 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 and Rocky Balboa.
Larry Bernstein:
Rocky Balboa is effectively Rocky 6.
Darren Schwartz:
And then we watched two documentaries on Sylvester Stallone.
Larry Bernstein:
The first documentary was called Sly and the other was the 40 Years of Rocky: The Birth of a Classic that was made 10 years ago. Did you love Rocky 1?
Darren Schwartz:
I was inspired. It reminded me of when I saw it in the theater with my father in 1976, great memories. It’s a movie about a down on his luck boxer who is a local thug, gets a chance to fight in the championship, but ultimately, it’s a story about a guy looking for respect and love. It was great to connect with it again.
Larry Bernstein:
I have not seen Rocky in 50 years. I was awestruck at how good it was. It felt fresh. The dialogue was much better than I expected. Stallone was superb. I had grossly underestimated his ability as an actor. It was excellent. Scott?
Scott Holstein:
His love for Adrian was raw. Fantastic. I saw it at the Edens Theater on Skokie Boulevard.
Larry Bernstein:
Me too.
Scott Holstein:
Which no longer exists. The movie for me was inspirational, absolutely.
Larry Bernstein:
Darren, the music plays an enormous role in all the Rocky films. What do you think of the Rocky Theme song?
Darren Schwartz:
It is central. Bill Conti was nominated for the Academy Award.
Larry Bernstein:
Nominated but did not win, lost to Evergreen which was the theme from A Star is Born.
Darren Schwartz:
I remember listening to it on the radio driving on Cranbrook Road. I have a vision when I was nine years old and it stays with you.
The melody builds to a crescendo. I think of him making it up the stairs and jumping at the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
Larry Bernstein:
The music is core to the entire series. In the original Rocky, it’s slow going. 1970s cinema is not like current films in terms of its pacing of dialogue or action. Kids will think it is ridiculously slow. But then when the Rocky theme starts, there is a spark.
Rocky is jogging and then because of his training he can accelerate into a sprint and with that the music changes with his speed. He runs up those stairs and starts jumping. I may have never mentioned this on the show before, but I went to Penn beginning in 1984.
Darren Schwartz:
Did you run the stairs?
Larry Bernstein:
Everyone ran up the stairs and jumped around. Most people run up the stairs but never go into the Art Museum.
Darren Schwartz:
They should charge for that.
Larry Bernstein:
The Rocky statue was installed at the top of the stairs.
The statue was created for Rocky 3 and was donated to the city. There was controversy as it was not considered to be fine art. The statue was moved from the art museum to the Spectrum which is where the Flyers and the Sixers used to play. But by popular demand, the statue was brought back to the art museum in 2005, and this year there was a major exhibit at the art museum called Rising Up: Rocky and the Making of Monuments.
Philadelphia was not safe when I lived there. The year before I arrived Mayor Wilson Goode fire bombed the MOVE Building that accidentally burned down an entire square block.
My dad came to visit me over Columbus Day weekend during my freshman year. My college roommate was out of town, so my dad slept in my dorm room. It was hot, so I left the window open and early in the morning a squirrel came into the room and was running around.
Scott Holstein:
It sounds like Rocky chasing the chicken.
Larry Bernstein:
It’s similar.
Dad said that I needed to get a screen. I found in the Yellow Pages a hardware store 8 blocks away. I called them up and I told them that I would walk over and pick it up.
“Walk. Are you out of your mind?”
“What do you mean?”
“It’s not safe here. The screen costs $16. Come with exact change. I have a half door. Take a cab, tell the driver to wait, run over. I’ll hand you the screen in exchange for the cash, get back in that cab and get out of here.”
Scott Holstein:
What happened to the squirrel?
Larry Bernstein:
Squirrel didn’t come back thanks to the screen.
In the Rocky movies we get a visual tour of Philadelphia. The Italian working-class neighborhood where he lives and trains. We see him running on paths next to the Schuylkill River, and sprint on the Benjamin Franklin Parkway to the art museum steps.
Darren Schwartz:
One of my favorite lines was during the press conference. They ask Rocky, “What do you think about the fight being at the Spectrum?”
“I like it. It’s near my house.”
Larry Bernstein:
That goes to Rocky’s use of language. Most athletes, especially boxers resemble Apollo Creed with their use of hyperbole and antagonism towards their opponent. It’s nasty.
Rocky is understated, self-deprecating, kind, and direct with his language.
Darren Schwartz:
Rocky was a reluctant challenger. At the press conference, he’s a fan of Apollo. He’s sitting next to him. Apollo’s doing his Ali version of, I’m going to destroy this man.
And they ask, “Rocky, what do you think about that?”
He goes, “He seems kind of mad.” He does not have the challenger mentality. He’s happy to be there, the reluctant challenger, and develops that killer instinct once he trains. The inspiration for that is Adrian who gives him the confidence that he can win.
Larry Bernstein:
The fights are only like 20 percent of the movie, most of it is his preparation.
Scott Holstein:
The training begins this transformation from a troubled guy into a fighting machine. And it’s an internal struggle as much as it is a physical struggle.
Larry Bernstein:
Rocky is a series of six films. Darren how did Stallone make the sequels interesting?
Darren Schwartz:
Each Rocky movie follows the hero’s journey, which is a call to action, finding a mentor, training, trials, growth, death, rebirth, revelation, and ultimately success. You see that in every film.
They started each movie with the previous film’s ending fight. I’ve never seen that before. Stallone gets a lot of credit. In Rocky 1, Rocky ends with his fight against Apollo Creed that he loses. Split decision, this judge for Stallone, this judge for Creed. And Adrian comes to him. He’s yelling, “Yo, Adrian! In the background you vaguely hear winner and still champion.” So that’s minimized because what he’s really won is Adrian and self-respect.
That’s the end of the film. Rocky Two, opens with the fight ending and Rocky and Creed going to the hospital.
Larry Bernstein:
In each following Rocky, the film starts with a minute or two from the previous movie.
Darren Schwartz:
An inter-lacing effect where you are in the end of the previous movie to begin the next. It is an example of how Stallone brought a creative force that hasn’t been done in other films.
Larry Bernstein:
What are some of the motifs that Stallone uses in the series? What is the equivalent to the martini shaken not stirred?
Darren Schwartz:
He’s got the hat that he wore in the original film. Which was interesting because he picked it up on set. The director, John Avildsen was like, “You can’t wear that. You look ridiculous.” Because it was done similarly by Popeye Doyle in French Connection.
Stallone said “I’m doing it. “ So that stayed in.
Larry Bernstein:
In Rocky 5, Paulie gave Rocky’s power of attorney to his accountant who stole all his money. Rocky is bankrupt. They auction off all his stuff and he has to move back to his old neighborhood in South Philadelphia.
Darren Schwartz:
It’s a two bedroom.
Scott Holstein:
And Adrian goes back to the pet shop.
Larry Bernstein:
When Rocky clears out his attic, he finds the old hat and we’ve come full circle. He puts the hat back on and goes back to his old neighborhood.
Darren Schwartz:
The turtles went away for a couple movies, and they came back.
Larry Bernstein:
Adrian worked at the pet shop and sold turtles to Rocky in the original movie.
Darren Schwartz:
A turtle is a disgusting animal. Bad things happen with turtles. One of my two spirit animals, but I don’t want to touch them.
Scott Holstein:
My dad’s former law partner died of getting E. Coli from a turtle. He kept pet turtles in his basement.
Darren Schwartz:
There you go. What’s he thinking?
Scott Holstein:
He’s deceased. He created a cement terrarium in his basement that had ten turtles.
In the summer, he would let them out into his backyard. Our son had a baby turtle, and we ended up giving it to him to take care of.
Darren Schwartz:
Did your son’s turtle kill the guy?
Scott Holstein:
Possibly. I don’t think they ever figured out which particular turtle.
Larry Bernstein:
Let’s talk about Rocky’s body as an integral part of his character.
Scott Holstein:
It was used to define where he’s at in his journey. He starts out bulky, 10% body fat in Rocky 1. In Rocky 2, he’s muscular but not cut. In Rocky 3, he hires Arnold Schwarzenegger’s trainer buddy. There is a rivalry between Arnold and Stallone. They argue about who’s got the lowest body fat. Rocky’s got to 2.8% body fat in Rocky 3.
Larry Bernstein:
Some of members our audience may not know what that percentage means, Scott your lean, where do you personally stand?
Scott Holstein:
I appreciate that. I don’t know what my body fat is. When you drop your body fat from 10% to 2.8%, that’s like what a bodybuilder does.
Darren Schwartz:
He said it was too low. He was not eating enough carbs so he couldn’t focus and was dizzy.
Scott Holstein:
His breakfast was raw tuna fish.
Darren Schwartz:
I don’t know if it was the iron or the mercury, but he was losing his mind.
Scott Holstein:
Rocky 3 starts and Rocky is totally cut; you look at him differently. He’s an assassin. He’s a polished sculpted specimen. He’s at his peak physical specimen.
Larry Bernstein:
In the documentary Sly, they interviewed Schwarzenegger and he said that they were hypercompetitive in every aspect of their lives besides the body fat.
Darren, you and I have never had that kind of rivalry.
Darren Schwartz:
No.
Larry Bernstein:
Why don’t we have weigh ins. I know you weigh yourself twice a day.
Scott Holstein:
Twice a day. Is this true?
Darren Schwartz:
Yeah.
Scott Holstein:
I don’t mean to laugh at you, but morning and evening?
Darren Schwartz:
Twice in the morning.
Scott Holstein:
Is it a water issue?
Darren Schwartz:
Before and after.
Scott Holstein:
Well, I think it’s like looking at sales on a monthly basis. You should look at yourself quarterly.
Darren Schwartz:
I disagree with that.
Scott Holstein:
Between Schwarzenegger and Stallone, the movie gross was also a big competition. One guy would do a sequel, and then it would make X, and then the next guy would do another sequel and makes X plus, and they would fight back and forth.
Darren Schwartz:
And body count in terms of how many people died in their movies.
Larry Bernstein:
Stallone’s father was incredibly abusive to him throughout his life. After he achieves fame and fortune from the Rocky series, Stallone organizes his own Polo team, and he invites his father to play, and in the opening minutes of the game, his father knocks him off his horse and badly hurts him.
Scott Holstein:
Worse than that, his dad writes a movie called Sonny.
Darren Schwartz:
A boxing movie.
Scott Holstein:
Essentially the exact same story. He puts himself in as the lead character.
Darren Schwartz:
And he went to some film producer, “What do you think about making this boxing movie?” And the guy’s like, “Your son just made an Oscar winning movie about a boxer. What are you thinking?”
Scott Holstein:
Who the hell does that?
That’s insane.
Darren Schwartz:
Stallone’s personal life was an uphill battle from the beginning. He was pulled out by his head with forceps that caused permanent nerve damage that makes his face to droop and effects his speech that makes him sound like a thug appears like a form of paralysis.
Scott Holstein:
I thought that was put on by the actor to make him appear stupid. But his face is paralyzed.
Darren Schwartz:
His parents, until he was five, dropped him off at different foster homes. They divorced at 11 and he lived with his dad who was abusive and he got kicked out of 13 schools. He was voted most likely to wind up in an electric chair by teachers, that’s serious. But he still retained a relationship with his father. In the polo incident, his father ran him down. Afterward, during the press conference his father said, “That was a great match. I really enjoyed playing my son.” And Stallone’s like... “I don’t know if you saw that, but my dad knocked me off,” and then Stallone never played polo again. But he still retained a relationship and love for his dad.
Larry Bernstein:
Back to Rocky, the original film budget was $1 million and it grossed $225 million. It is an excellent return on capital. That will be like buying Bitcoin in
Scott Holstein:
2011
Larry Bernstein:
And then having the gumption not to sell and take profits.
Stallone wrote the screenplay for Rocky 1 in three days, he was the lead actor, directed many of the Rocky movies in the series. Remember that Barbara Streisand did a similar accomplishment with Yentl. Darren, how to think about the similarities between Stallone and Streisand?
Darren Schwartz:
There’s not many, but Stallone was nominated for an Academy Award for writing solo, not with a partner, an original screenplay and then acting in the movie.
At the time, Stallone can’t get any roles. He says, “I’m going to write my own screenplay” and stars in it and gets nominated for both. It’s an amazing feat. Orson Welles did it, but it was an adapted screenplay. Other people have done it, remember Goodwill Hunting, Damon and Affleck. He was on his own. He wrote that thing in three days. Incredible.
Larry Bernstein:
Darren, I have observed you over a three-day period and get absolutely nothing done.
Darren Schwartz:
He also adjusted it over time as they were shooting. In the original ending Rocky throws the fight. Stallone said, “this needs to be a story that people can champion.” Just like, in the original ending of Rambo, they kill him off, but he said, “I’m doing this as an homage to Vietnam vets who’ve been treated poorly. Rambo can’t die.”
Scott Holstein:
Bringing in Mr. T, he got chastised by the producers for doing that and Hulk Hogan who was great. It’s crazy, but people are going to love it.
Larry Bernstein:
And he’s right. In Rocky 3, he has an exhibition fight with Hulk Hogan who in comparison is a giant.
Stallone is not very tall in real life.
Scott Holstein:
5’9”.
Darren Schwartz:
He’s listed as 5’9”. He’s got to be 5’7”.
Scott Holstein:
That’s our size. I’m 5’ 8”.
Larry Bernstein:
Mick says, “Call this thing off. Hogan’s going to kill you.”
In the exhibition fight, Hogan picks up Rocky and throws him out of the ring.
Scott Holstein:
That’s a great moment in the movie.
Adding Mr. T is a perfect choice.
Larry Bernstein:
I went to Mexico City on vacation with my wife and kids. We drove by a wrestling match similar to Nacho Libre where the bad guys wear masks.
My son was immediately on board but my wife Julie hesitated, “I’m not sure this is the right thing to do.” But once Julie’s in, she’s 100% in, and we got front row seats.
They open the event with a dwarf throw. They pick up the little guy and throw him into the audience and somebody out there was ready to grab him.
Scott Holstein:
It’s a dwarf. It’s a person.
Larry Bernstein:
People can get hurt. Julie got so excited that she left her seat and entered into what is called no man’s land, an area around the ring. It’s empty because wrestlers get thrown out of the ring all the time.
Julie entered no man’s land and security runs over and says, “Lady, what are you doing? This is dangerous. Get out of there.” “Oh, sorry.” And she retreated back. But you should know that Lucha Libre is something you need to see in Mexico City.
Scott Holstein:
I want to say one more thing too about Stallone’s choices. He is really good at taking the temperature of the culture like what he did with Dolph Lundgren.
Larry Bernstein:
That is the Russian boxer Ivan Drago that Rocky fights in Rocky 4.
Scott Holstein:
What year did that come out?
Darren Schwartz:
’85
Scott Holstein:
We’re talking about the Russian Olympians on steroids. Dolph Lundgren is a science project.
Darren Schwartz:
Totally juiced.
Scott Holstein:
Drago is juiced. He’s built by the Russians.
Larry Bernstein:
He towers over Stallone.
Scott Holstein:
Drago’s training is computer driven.
Larry Bernstein:
And what does Rocky do?
Scott Holstein:
Rocky goes in the middle of the winter to Siberia.
Larry Bernstein:
Across his back, he carries an enormous log.
Scott Holstein:
And it was breaking him.
Larry Bernstein:
Running up a mountain with the Rocky theme song playing in the background.
Darren Schwartz:
Helping villagers.
Larry Bernstein:
Supposedly it’s Siberia but it is actually filmed in Jackson Hole, he would return later that evening to a fine resort with a steak dinner.
Scott Holstein:
That movie puts Stallone in the hospital. Drago apparently hit him so hard. It moved his heart in real life.
Two weeks in the hospital. He tells the actor Lundgren to hit him as if it’s real and it puts him in the hospital. Amazing. And Drago kills Apollo in the beginning of the movie.
Larry Bernstein:
That’s in the movie script; that’s not real life. I don’t think we can compare a fictional death with Stallone’s heart injury.
Scott Holstein:
It’s all mixed up in my head.
Larry Bernstein:
A Gorbachev look alike is in the audience for the Drago fight.
Scott Holstein:
Think that I’m going too far by suggesting that it helped bring the Berlin Wall come down?
Larry Bernstein:
The Wall comes down four years later. No, I don’t think people remembered that scene from Rocky 4.
Scott Holstein:
Because at the end of the movie, all the Russians are screaming, Rocky, Rocky.
Larry Bernstein:
But not knock down that wall.
Darren Schwartz:
The speech at the end of Rocky 4 is one of the low points of the entire series and possibly one of the low points in all cinema.
Larry Bernstein:
Another interesting aspect about Stallone is that he is also the boxing choreographer of the movie. Tell us about that.
Darren Schwartz:
He was not a boxer in his younger days. He learned to box and worked with Joe Frazier and some other contemporaries. And he took to it.
He came up with the idea for Rocky after watching Muhammad Ali beat a guy named Chuck Wepner. He was inspired by Chuck Wepner’s background, gritty guy.
Chuck Wepner said, “Hey man, you’re making a movie about me.” Wepner sues; they settled for an undisclosed amount. You could argue that he inspired the movie, maybe it was based on Rocky Graziano’s story.
But to me that goes to the heart of that, Stallone dives into everything, he wants it to be realistic.
Larry Bernstein:
In Rocky 3, Apollo Creed trains Rocky for the fight against Mr. T.
Mick’s dead and Rocky desperately needs a new coach to teach him better footwork.
Darren Schwartz:
Creed said, “We’re going to an LA gritty gym with a different crowd, look, and feel. The whole idea was I’m going to teach you how to dance because you need to be a real fighter not a brawler. Carl Weathers played Apollo Creed. Stallone said that he was one of the best natural gifted athletes he’s ever been around. Even though he hadn’t been a boxer, he was the most realistic boxer in the movies.
What stood out to me was how fast Carl Weathers was running backwards? I mean, can you imagine running full speed and then turning around? Athletes do it. I couldn’t do it. You couldn’t do it. I don’t think Scott could do it. Of the three of us, Scott possibly could do that.
Scott Holstein:
I could do it.
The best moment of their relationship is the ending of Rocky 3, where the film ends with them in the ring in a rematch. And it ends with the fists going up. It turns into a painting.
Darren Schwartz:
That’s one of the most iconic visuals in the Rocky franchise. You got him on the steps of the museum, arms in the air, and you’ve that LeRoy Neiman painting where they’re both about to hit each other.
Scott Holstein:
It’s the mentor and the mentee as equal. It’s a beautiful moment. You thought they hated each other. Then in the movie Creed, you find out who won.
Larry Bernstein:
Let’s go back to Rocky 1. The big event, the championship fight goes the distance. We think were watching a boxing film and then suddenly the plot line flips to Adrian. This is a love story disguising itself as a boxing film.
Rocky is beaten to a pulp; he may lose an eye. His face was used as a punching bag. Rocky screams out to Adrian who starts running.
Darren Schwartz:
She wore a red beret, which I think inspired Curtis Sliwa of the Guardian Angels in New York. That’s just part of her look, and she gets jostled going through the crowd. Paulie lifts up the ropes so she can sneak in. She runs up to him at this amazing moment, but Rocky only cares about her.
She runs up to him and he goes, “What happened to your hat?” Stallone’s always throwing these funny little lines in, which ties into the fact that he was the writer.
Larry Bernstein:
I want to move to Sly the documentary. In Sly is when I realized that I had totally underestimated Stallone as an artist. Tell us about your response to this fabulous documentary.
Darren Schwartz:
There’s an appreciation for how badly he wanted to be successful, and at the root of it is his abandonment by his father and the bullying.
I was bullied when I was younger.
Larry Bernstein:
No one talks about that.
Darren Schwartz:
I call it beauty bullying.
Larry Bernstein:
Because you were so good looking?
Darren Schwartz:
Well, not just that.
Larry Bernstein:
The hair?
Darren Schwartz:
Yeah. My hair was thick, luscious, and long. And these kids were bullying, but you turn it inward.
Larry Bernstein:
Tell us about the documentary Sly.
Scott Holstein:
It’s imperative to watch. It’s amazing. Go to Netflix. His upbringing explains a lot about him. One of the things he brings to his movies is his ability to understand what will please the viewer. He’s a very emotional guy. You realize how deep of a person he is.
Larry Bernstein:
Stallone has a deep appreciation for art. In the movies, there’s the Rocky statue. His restaurant in Rocky Balboa is filled with artwork and memorabilia. In Sly, Stallone is filmed in his Florida home, there’s art everywhere. I turned to Darren and I said, “That’s a painting by George Condo.”
I paused the film, took a picture of it, and download it to ChatGPT. AI said there is an 85% probability that it was painted by George Condo. Later, I asked my wife and she said, “Of course it is Condo. Everyone knows that Stallone has a fabulous George Condo collection.”
Stallone’s films include excellence in art, music, and technology. There’s a scene in one of the Rocky films where he’s running towards the Philadelphia Art Museum and the camera is steady with him without jostling about.
Darren Schwartz:
It’s reported that it was an early successful use of the Steadicam. He was using new technology. He wasn’t afraid to break the mold.
Larry Bernstein:
Rocky visits his brother-in-law Paulie who works at a meat packing plant. Rocky sees the meat and finds an opportunity.
Scott Holstein:
What could be a better way for Rocky to train than to punch frozen slabs of beef?
Larry Bernstein:
Without gloves. That has got to hurt.
Scott Holstein:
There is nothing lower tech and grittier than punching frozen beef. That’s the message. “Punching a bag just doesn’t do it. What can I do to create something impactful to the viewer?”
Larry Bernstein:
Stallone watched the great heavyweight fights and tried to incorporate them into his choreography.
Scott Holstein:
I’d like to ask him. Why not protect your face? At least attempt to. He’s not even trying.
Larry Bernstein:
Going to round 14 of Rocky 1, Creed shows the good sense to protect his face. But if you put your gloves up to your face, you leave your ribs exposed. This was when Rocky applies his lessons from punching the beef ribs at the meat packing plant to pounding Creed’s ribs. As he stumbles at the bell, Creed tells his trainer.
Darren Schwartz:
He broke my ribs.
Larry Bernstein:
Rocky 4 is when music jumps the shark. It feels like it’s a series of music videos.
Darren Schwartz:
I had a hard time focusing on Rocky 4. With Russia, we boycotted the Olympics in ‘80. They boycotted us in LA in ‘84, when they were shooting this movie. The music was the worst in Rocky 4 because it had that Miami Vice feel. It was 1985 cinema. It was not good.
Larry Bernstein:
In the first three Rocky movies, music moved the storyline along. Here the music dominated and the story got lost.
Darren Schwartz:
It descended into an MTV music video with weird hair, 80s music.
Scott Holstein:
I found out the other day my son who’s 21 had not seen Rocky. I couldn’t believe it. I’ve failed as a father. And he’s not interested.
Larry Bernstein:
Ok, it is decision time. For someone who wants to understand Rocky—not just the movies, but the cultural phenomenon—what films and documentaries would you recommend they watch.
Darren Schwartz:
Rocky 1, 2, and 3 then both documentaries, then I would watch Rocky Balboa. Because there was a 16-year gap between 1990, which was Rocky 5 and Rocky Balboa. He comes out of retirement because there’s this video simulation that’s shows Rocky can beat Mason the Line Dixon, who’s Antonio Tarver, who was a real boxer. Rocky Balboa is worth seeing.
Larry Bernstein:
Here’s what I would say. You got to start with Rocky 1. It’s a masterpiece that won best picture. It remains fresh and different. Rocky 2 starts slow, but it’s successful. Rocky 3 is excellent. I think it is better than Rocky 2. Mr. T is incredible... Mr. Pain!
Scott Holstein:
Pity the fool.
Larry Bernstein:
Sly the documentary is a must see.
Darren Schwartz:
I agree. You get an insight into how his career went.
Larry Bernstein:
I end the podcast with optimism.
Scott Holstein:
That Stallone’s going to do one more.
Larry Bernstein:
Oh my God. I didn’t see that coming.
Darren Schwartz:
I am optimistic about pursuing your passion and against all odds making a career out of what you want to do. And learning about someone who you thought you knew and realizing, wait a second, this guy’s a creative genius. He’s not a blockhead. People should reintroduce themselves to Stallone.
Scott Holstein:
Stallone as Rocky has single-handedly inspired millions of people to work out. The music, there is no song like the Rocky theme to get pumped up. Chariots of Fire is not even close. Nothing’s like Rocky. Nothing. I go to the gym a lot. Nothing is better than that tune if you’re not feeling it. It’s inspirational.
I don’t think he even realized what he was doing. The underdog theme executed with the hero’s journey and bringing it to modern day boxing. It’s a gift.
Darren Schwartz:
Larry, what are you optimistic about the Rocky franchise?
Larry Bernstein:
Rocky 1 was made 50 years ago with only a one-million-dollar budget. Historically there were barriers to entry in the film business. Stallone could not do this on his own. He needed someone to put up that money. Today, the price of cameras, film, and lighting is much cheaper. For $100,000, a young person can write, direct, act, and make a high-quality production film. I’m optimistic that we’re going to see many young artists with small budgets make wonderful movies.
Thanks to Darren and Scott for joining us.
If you missed our previous podcast, it was Improving Your Memory.
Our speaker was Michael Kahana who is one of the world’s leading experts on memory. He is a former Professor of Psychology at Penn, and is the founder of Nia Therapeutics that developed a medical device so patients can radically improve memory, especially for individuals with a brain injury, dementia, or Alzheimer’s.
Michael discussed how memory function works and how his medical device can improve human memory retrieval to improve cognitive abilities.
Previous episodes and transcripts are available on our website as well as at Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
I am Larry Bernstein with the podcast What Happens Next.
Check out our previous episode, A Breakthrough in Restoring Memory, here.
